Three things you can do to protect our community property values
You are currently browsing comments. If you would like to return to the full story, you can read the full entry here: “Three things you can do to protect our community property values”.
who’s going to pay for my grandaughter’s hearing aids? over 90 db in my backyard is too noisey! If this comes to pass, my wife and I are ready to join a lawsuit! We have lived at our current location for over 25 years without any real objections, but these things are too much.
(speedway and swan)
I attended the EIS meeting on the southside. It was poorly advertised, poorly attended, and one sided in its support of bringing the F-35 to Tucson. The southside is getting railroaded. I picked up a very interesting handout that announced that the proposed F-35 will be using D-M’s flightline. Looks like the entire community will be asked to pay an F-35 tax!
It doesn’t make sense to station the loudest aircraft in the history of the United States at a commercial airport in the middle of an urban area. There are certainly places better suited where the F-35 will be more welcomed and the pilots will have more freedom to do their training.
Hello. I am here in little beautiful Vermont, and was on the FOX news tonight voicing my opposition to the “bed-down” of 32 F-35A’s that may be coming here…. we are a small CIVILIAN airport with a Air Guard base attached… presently have 17 F-16″s…are loud at times, but not bad… we support our Guard… HOWEVER…. I, we do not support these F-35 Fighter Jets coming here…. We are pushing back and the local Air Guard General keeps saying they are only somewhat louder, not bad, a good fit for here……mind boogling….dB’s over120 on landing….. the most populous county in the state of Vermont….. and he down plays all of our concerns…
I was at that “forum” last night. I asked the Air Force economist about where the $280 million and 1000 jobs “brought to town by the F35″ came from and he answered that no one has made any such study and the numbers cannot be trusted.
Where did you get these numbers? What are they based on? How to they relate to the total Tucson economy; total jobs, total GDP of the area, etc.?
You are passing on unsubstantiated, unattributed numbers pulled out of thin air as far as anyone can tell and are not putting them in proper context.
Please help us out here!
I attended the scoping session at Sunnyside High this evening between 7:30 and 8. Sparsely attended at that point, and sparse on content too. Several nice fatigue-dressed people to chat with. Had the appearance of going through the motions, superficially. Seems important to keep at them with the point that an EIS process is meaningless unless there are real-life “exhibitions” over Tucson (and the other 4 places) of what the training operations and patterns will be like. Pretty handouts and polite conversation is no substitute for having the citizenry exposed to publicly announced fly-overs.
Arizona Daily Star
Around the Nation
Posted: Wednesday, March 3, 2010
District of Columbia
F-35 fighter likely to cost more and face 2-year delay
WASHINGTON – Air Force Secretary Michael Donley said production of the Pentagon’s marquee fighter jet, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, will probably be delayed by two years and cost significantly more than initially expected.
Donley told reporters Tuesday that the F-35 isn’t likely to be ready until 2015.
The jet had been scheduled to become operational in 2013 before the Pentagon uncovered serious problems with the contract. Donley said the Pentagon still remains “fully committed” to the program.
The “sound of freedom” WILL NOT BE HEARD by those deafened by F-35s overhead. The F-35s’ huge noise will destroy babies’ and kids’ hearing as well as ours (see NYT March 2 report), and severely limit kids’(and our) capacity to learn/concentrate. Also unheard by many of us will be every other sound we need to survive – human conversation; family-children’s needs; medical, educational and business speech/transactions; traffic signals; music, sport and community activities. The Southwest Desert and Tucson’s fabled tourist industries/jobs/incomes/hotels/real-estate values, do NOT need this extra blow-to-the-gut of F-35s flying over the densely=populated city. There are other and better regions for the F-35 missions, which we citizens hope will thrive – but elsewhere….certainly not immediately over this city and – with noise, accidents and pollution all predictable and pedicted, its vulnerable population.
2 F-18’s flew over our house on Fri afternoon 2/12 and the noise was totally insane, it was like something out of Star Wars! If people only realized that the funding has recently been cut on this program, it’s only a “test plane” and we don’t want test planes flying around our CITY, and the noise is worse than the F-18’s that flew in from nowhere, they would vote NO! Please don’t be fooled by these promises of $$$! It’s not worth the $, their going to destroy our peaceful community, our property values, our wildlife and our sanity!
Everything I’ve read clearly indicates 112db’s at 2000′elev & 121db’s at 1000′elev. Much louder than this at landing. We all know that planes consistently fly under 1000′ over the entire city of Tucson. How long before we are all deaf? This is not a noisey plane – this plane literally will cause deaths. Death from high blood pressure and/or stroke. Emergency sirens will not be heard if a plane is about. You won’t even hear the firing of a small caliber gun….think of the resulting violence. A must read: http://www.makeitlouder.com/Decibel%20level%20Chart.txt We have not even begun to discuss Acoustical Vibrations on structures.
Someone should do a letter to the editor about this. (I can’t for 30 days.) To me it is all but inconceivable the Air Force couldn’t spare a plane for a day to come up and make an appearance. And what a great time for a flyover! Everybody will be paying attention.
I attended the meeting at Sunnyside High School with an open mind and the intent to make my concerns known. However, I soon discovered that there was nobody there to whom I could do so. Most of the folks were military. The pilot I spoke with had never even seen an F-35A. Where were our elected community officials, who should be representing us? I have since sent a message to mayor Walkup and councilwoman Romero to this effect. If they’re not going to be there when we need them, then why did we elect them in the first place? I don’t know what the TV stations took away in their video clips, but they certainly didn’t ask me for comment. I think this was nothing but political theater, and that they’re going to force the F-35A onto us anyway. WHAT A WASTE!!!
Why not send the F-35s to Cannon AFB in (Clovis) New Mexico. They are begging for more Air Force there to keep from shutting down the base.
There is a LOT of room for expansion & plenty of air space for flights. They would LOVE to have the F-35s there.
The noise from the aircraft flying over now is loud enough to make my 3 year old border collie sit and shake uncontrollably for most of the day. She only willingly goes outside in the early morning or in the evenings when the activity is lessened. Once the F35′s start flying over, the noise will be unbearable and we will probably end up moving even though I’ve lived here for 22 years. The quality of life will be diminished due to the loud toxic noise of these jets. (Sabino Canyon/Cloud Area)
It was great to see so many citizens show up to OPPOSE the F-35 from coming to Tucson.
The military nuts are like rude neighbors who want to retaliate against others for requiring compliance on zoning codes and noise laws.
DM has allowed more and more pilots to fly outside their designated flight paths and think that people will think it’s merely the sound of freedom. Ha! It’s not. It’s the sound of a bully neighbor who doesn’t care about anyone about their noise, weeds, junk cars, barking dogs or loud, low-flying aircraft. It’s shameful.
It takes about 15 seconds for a jet to fly one mile off course. What are these hotshot pilots doing? Checking their Blackberries? If they can’t stay on course, how are they going to be on target in a combat situation?
The better place to be is Marana or some place else–not Tucson!
As long as we live in a democracy, we citizens have the responsibility and right to speak up against a poor fit for our community.
There are 4,000 employees in the arts and entertainment industry here compared to the 1,000 (or 2,000 depending on the lobbyist’s spin) jobs for the Guard. Then there are those who work to support the gem shows and sports. There are approximately 300,000 citizens in the midtown area, working in offices, working from home, and the elderly or sick who also have a right to reasonable peace.
Not everyone fits the rightwinger’s frame, by the way. Some of us opposed to more flyovers are military brats, with retired WWII pilots and aircraft mechanics as relatives. We know the stories. We know the mindset. And, we know that the era of the military that respects and works with its citizens has almost passed. We’re seeing what Eisenhower warned against: the arrogant military-industrial complex.
Say no to the F-35
http://www.TucsonForward.com
Sound of freedom, we heard that before/ just like when we went to Iraq.
Plz stop flying over my head. w F-35 our kids can not play outside.
Plz go outside city in desert.
Thank you
Peace
Who pays for our property tax?
Kids canot play outside.
If you have to fly ,Go outside city limit by airport Not on top of my head.
Sound of freedom is just a millitary BS.
Whtawould they say if F35 will be on top of their Houses?
Plz ask them!!!!!
tahnk you…
What ever the promise is in regards to military jobs that will be created by bringing these monstrosities to this primarily residential and retirement community nothing compares with the infraction of our right to quality of life.
I feel TERRIFIED when the current jets fly low over my house and even the solid brick walls shake!
What will the sound waves do when the F-35 flies over my house? Break windows possibly? Set car alarms off? Wouldn’t that be dandy… we could have a cacophony of noise pollution in our city streets. At least then Tucson will not be known for its “high drug related crime” rate to outsiders… instead it’ll catch on really quickly that NO ONE will get any rest here and maybe the tourist industry will finally tank completely (esp. after all the budget cuts for our parks and recreation are fully implemented)!
Not to mention the competition for the few current available positions in this high unemployment rate city that will follow from the influx of all the employment eligible family member moving to the area when those 1000 some odd service men and women move to Tucson.
Do our legislators just hope that all the “cry-babies” will leave town because of the horrendous noise-pollution and miraculously jobs will open up to occupy the families that come as “extra baggage” with the military? They certainly won’t be pumping their earnings into the Tucson economy… let’s face it they get what they need at the base, and other than the low-cost housing market… who in fact is supposed to benefit from these 1000 jobs?
One suggestion and I am willing to participate on a massive scale:
How about creating pithy flyers with all the FACTS pros and cons stated on them and taking these house to house DURING and RIGHT AFTER jets fly over our heads. Apparently it’s not so bad to some who hear the “sound of freedom.” But there are possibly MANY who, when in the moment the noise disrupts their lives in some way, might want and need a reminder of what is still to come in order to act and address this issue united as an educated community.
Or has our military gained so much strength that ordinary citizens are now scared at best and intimidated at worst by their command and presence in this community. Why do we let them terrorize US citizens… has it come this far? Can we still call this a democracy when there are NO elected representatives at any of these meetings present who listen to citizens comments/concerns/questions so they can do their jobs and negotiate/mediate the situation that is clearly already out of hand!
Come on Tucson! Lets get out on the streets and show that we are a democracy still and not a military subservient population!
And for those of you who enjoy the noise so much… why don’t you show how wonderfully patriotic you are and trade your homes with those unfortunate souls who are sensitive to the noise. That would solve a lot of problems and probably make everybody happy!
Mr Boucher,
I have just read your letter posted at Tucson Forward concerning the EIS and F-35 aircraft.
In 1942 over 3,000 acres of land was seized at Whidbey Island Washington at Oak Harbor for the Navy Base NASWI. Some of this land belonged to my grandparents since 1910, others had owned their land since 1840. All were devastated at the loss of their heritage land. One of the most desirable pieces of property on the waterfront with a gentle slope to the water was a horse ranch. This ranch is now paved over with runways. The owners moved to Canada never to return to their property. The land seized from my grandparents is now a campground and recreation area for the Navy. It was recently renovated for half a million dollars with funds from the five-sided-funny farm.
One family that benefited the most from the loss of their property insisted the Navy find them an equivalent piece of property and purchase it for them. Perhaps this would be a solution to those who cannot replace their homes in Burlington.
It is imperative you fight this menace with all available resources to preserve the quality of life in Burlington.
My family still lives on Whidbey enduring the loud invasive noise at all hours of the day and night from the aircraft.
Civilian property owners who complain always hear the mantra “If you don’t like it you can move”.
Even though NASWI was on the BRAC list it is now expanding. Pioneer families are still fighting so please forgive me for signing this with my initials as I do not want to be harassed by Navy personnel who do not want to give up their occupation of this beautiful island.
Failing to give timely notice of meetings is SOP for the military. They tried this tactic in their attempt to expand the Northwest Training Range Complex. Citizens were outraged, demanded and received an extension on public comments. Unfortunately these comments fall on deaf ears. The military claims the low frequency sonar and depleted uranium does no harm contrary to the truth.
I would like to suggest this website where you will find timely information about the destruction and toxic pollution left by the military on bases around our nation. You can subscribe to their email list.
http://www.cpeo.org
Wishing you the best and thanks to Tucson Forward for all their efforts to inform the public.
mda
From A.M.
Here are the comments from my brother, who went with my husband and me to one of the Tucson scoping meetings. He’s from out of town but worried for Tucson.
His comments:
It is feared that the noise levels from the F-35 are just too high to be endured by the heavily populated urban area of Tucson. This would adversely affect the quality of life in the areas flown over and likely would make home values, under the flight paths less valuable. If 50,000 homes dropped in value by $20,000, that is a $1,000,000,000 loss to the homeowners and tax base declines by one billion dollars to the local government. Yes, Tucson needs the jobs the F-35 would bring and surely noise mitigation technology would create even more jobs and with cross applications to commercial jobs, too. Let’s find that noise abatement technology that will solve the problem before placing the F-35 in Tucson.
I have just finished generating a letter in opposition to the deployment of the F35-A aircraft to TIA. I have forwarded a draft to the Sunnyside Neighborhood Association for comment/critique. I realize that some of you have busy lives and may not have the time to draft a letter of opposition, so I would like to share mine with you, such that you might just be able to print it out, add your signature and the specific Congress person’s name, and mail it, if you are so inclined. Trouble is, I don’t know how to put file containing a copy up on this website for you to view. If anybody out there could advise me on how to do this, my email address is ashandmagee@msn.com I think we need to flood the halls of Congress with these. If we all send one, I’m sure it will have an impact. Thank you.
From H.B.
Thanx Tucson Forward and all your amazing volunteers, for bringing REAL INFORMATION about F-35s and their dangers to us citizens and residents. Keep at it – an informed public will forever be grateful to you and your research, statements, discussions with USAF, ANG, and local governments.
KS Says
Tucson is Not a Tarmac
so it was Glassmans last night . At least he saw some protest.
Is there anyone you can think of to put on the council. in his place…who is pro Tucson ?
It would make things so much easier to have a least one voice on the council. who isn’t in the hands of the military.
And the opportunity is now. Any ideas..ward 2. council member?
Everyone looks nice in black. Coco Channel was right about that!
Comment for David Martin
You spoke of ‘insulating houses’ against the noise…..as an example, Mpls. We have friends who live in large older homes in a beautiful area of Mpls that opted for this solution, as their only solution, since they didn’t want to move, and now they are ‘trapped’ in their homes…. if they wish to eliminate the incredible noise of air traffic. Everything is sealed up tight! This may work in a winter climates, but not in Tucson where the outdoors and indoors are combined all year round. The noise would be would greatly affect Tucson’s life style….. The peacefulness of the desert would be lost!
Many believe the F-35 should rethink their other possible locations….not an area where people ‘live’ outdoors. It will have serious long term consequences for the growth and charm of Tucson, the desert and parks. This is what brings people of all ages to Tucson and given time, these features will continue to stimulate the economy.
I don’t think the majority of the Tucson people really understand the long term consequences in bringing in the F-35 as a ‘fix’ to Tucson’s economy. I believe it will deter its growth rather than enhance it. The Air Force presentations are seductive and misleading. The costs of the F-35 are a concern..and why their the refusal for a two week fly-over?
What is being presented as an immediate ‘fix’ will end up as a long-term serious problem…. a major issue, noise pollution, that many will regret…including some, who voted for it. You can’t hide loud noise when it is a year-round outdoor climate!
I was at the meeting at the Tucson golf complex on Wednesday evening, May 19 for the presentation. Unfortunately, about halfway through the meeting, my hearing aids started acting up due to low batteries, however I did the best I could with what I had. The following is what I BELIEVE, in good faith, I heard.
The environmental inpact study is currently ongoing. The presentation listed many study parametrics which must be evaluated, and some which would even be subject to changing conditions, such as weather and barometric pressure. This implies that more than one live evaluation would need to be done to cover the different conditions. However, there is currently a shortage of aircraft to participate. This really disturbed me, so I asked the question, ‘If indeed the shortage of aircraft gets to the point where all conditions cannot be evaluated with live fly-overs, will the EIS be extended until a complete evaluation can be accomplished at each site?’. The answer I got was quite ambiguous, and the airman who answered made a reference to the use of some statistical tools to be used by the organization doing the study. This is worrisome, since it tells me that, in order to finish the EIS by fall, which is the current plan, it looks very much like sortcuts may be taken. I don’t see how one or two fly-overs will give the EIS team enough information to do an honest evaluation. I’m totally new at this, so maybe they have it covered, but I sure don’t feel warm and fuzzy about it. I think it’s something which must be watched closely, to make sure that due diligence is applied, and that no short cuts are taken. Would really like to hear comments from anybody else who was there, or anybody who understands this process better than I do. I’m kinda lost, but wanted to raise a flag anyway. Thank you.
Both my husband and I are very opposed to the F-35 jets coming to base and train in Tucson. We have participated in many events as well as meetings recently eg.EIS, Town Council, written letters to the authorities voicing our opposition and are shocked that we don’t read more in the Arizona Daily Star in the letters to the editor section about this insane plan. The large numbers of persons who relocate to Tucson for it’s beauty and serenity will leave in droves if we have to hear loud screeching jets flying overhead. There are much less populated and more suitable areas for this type of activity.
Come on Tucsonans let your voice be heard in this. Get involved as we can all make a difference and the time to do this is now!
Gary, you shouldn’t feel warm and fuzzy about the upcoming EIS. Our fear is that the A.F. has already made up their minds and it’s a matter of how many F-35s we’ll get. I also attended the MCRC meeting. You are right on. The Air Force has said that they won’t send a F-35 to Tucson so we can hear how loud it is. The best suggestion came from one of the MCRC committee members who said how about a citizen’s committee going to a site where they are flying. We could hire a sound engineer. Let’s push on our elected officials to arrange it. We can’t just walk on a base.
Terese, right on. We all have to get involved and write letters to the ADS and to our elected officials. Until there are big numbers, they will continue to stonewall us. Remember community support or the lack thereof, is important. Remind them that Tucson is very divided on this issue and that not everyone supports bringing the F-35 to Tucson. Thousands do not support it.
Hi,
One day about a week ago, I called & spoke with David Martin, who said that he is the project Mgr for the EIS. He was very friendly & helpful about answering all my many questions. During the conversation, he also said that he thinks that Tucson is not a good place to base the F-35s, & stated that he has also stated this to those who are involved in the decision-making. Unfortunately, he is not in charge of making the decision re the deployment of the F-35s.
Here is what I learned from him re the process, & my own responses to that information:
1) Because there are so few of these planes available, almost all of the flyover studies will actually be done via a computer program.
I pointed out to him that computer programs are highly subject to error, because humans write them & humans enter the information into them, & the old computereze saying (s___ in, s___ out) still holds true, esp. since all the humans involved will be military & therefore will be under pressure to find in favor of results that find the F-35 fit to be placed safely anywhere the military wants it.
In addition, the fact that there are only a few of this aircraft available means that it is still highly experimental, & therefore a safety rating cannot possibly be done on it with any accuracy…. it hasn’t been around long enough to be tested adequately!
2) The time frame for the draft Environmental Impact Study is Nov/Dec. That is the beginning of the 45 days the public will have to view the draft.
3) Then at the end of the 45 days, a public hearing will be held at which time the public can submit comments, which will be “taken into consideration”. The hearing will not be a “presentation” (ie: will not be for answering the public’s questions re the F-35s) but will instead be only for gathering the public’s comments/concerns.
4) The final decision re where the F-35s will be based will be made by the Secretary of the Air Force…. period!!!
This really incenses me! I understand that the military is definitely not a democracy. However, the (roughly) one million citizens of Tucson are not in the military, so how is it that the military is allowed to decide whether we (as citizens of a democratic republic) are subjected to the possibility of unsafe noise levels & crashes imposed by the F-35 flyovers??? That should be our decision…. democratically decided by us. Only if we first agree to it, then the military can make their part of the decision!!!!
So to me, the way this process is being done is completely unconstitutional! Someone correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t it guaranteed in the Constitution that unless a state of “marshall law” is formally declared, we should have all the rights in this….. not the U.S. Military!!!!????
Here is the link David Martin gave me for the F-35A Training Environmental Impact Statement website, where you can download a “comment form” to fill out, & where (presumably) the public hearings for Nov. & Dec. will at some time be posted:
http://www.f-35atrainingeis.com
Lee
It’s ironic that computer simulation might be considered adequate for assessing the appropriateness of flying F-35s over cities, for ground flight simulators would be perfectly adequate for most of the pilot training, as both airlines and military have shown, with colossal savings in fuel and elimination of other problems environmental and otherwise.
Only one oil spill’s too many, and maybe one F-35 spewing toxins and noise is too.
David Ray
Please check out my website. MACDILL AFB COOKED THE BOOKS ON NOISE DATA HARMING 8000 PEOPLE FOR 14 YEARS!!!! We have a similar problem, however MacDill AFB noise harms 8000 residential citizens in the flight paths, far in excess of 65dB-DNL and actually more like 75 to 80dB of noise DAILY by MacDill Air Craft if you disclose the REAL ACTUAL hazards of noise WHICH MACDILL HIDES USING FRAUD IN THEIR AICUZ STUDIES. MacDill AFB never produced a single EIS for their entire 6th Air Refueling Wing ever in 14 years. And are required under AICUZ Policy supposed to update and revalidate this noise hazard data on a semi-annual basis. More FRAUD by DOD and the Air Force to hide hazards which harms the public. MacDill in their 1998 AICUZ, back dated the noise data prior to the 12 KC135′s Arrival in 1997, Totally OMITTING all noise hazards like a “SHELL GAME” for 12 years. They did the same thing again in their 2008 AICUZ by back dating their noise a year and a half earlier and one month before the placement of 4 more KC135R aircraft which they lied about, and fully omitted this additional noise hazards. Amazingly MacDill also fully omits an entire full noise contour in an APZ2 over residential property, which they fly daily and also where a Public Ballast Point Elementary School is located and which 400 student attend.
Check out, as we need to revive HR672 Military Environmental Responsibility Act. We need this Bill passes ASAP, which should compensate victims like the 8000 people in Tampa, FL And hold these bases accountable for their crimes against the public and environment.
Good Luck, Contact me via my website above. MW
I have started a log on all “loud” F-16 activity about 7 miles northwest of TIA. I am recording, if I am home, all northwest takeoffs with afterburner (which stops all conversation if outside, or impossible to listen to the TV if inside), and landing approaches that come in from the northwest. Notice I said approaches. They do not land but go around and make a landing pass after that (The military way). Some of these approaches are at or about the civilian aircraft. How ever some are way below, an un-necessary action (and even louder) since the do not land.
The F-35 can only make things unbearable if the noise is loud as reported. I truly hope that an actual test is run and the public will be advised of the timing so that we can be aware and make necessary comments.
I read somewhere in the Star awhile back that the base colonel says that they do noise abatement. If he thinks this, he does not know what is going on. In some other cities, the base commander has issued a policy that if any pilot uses afterburner(s) within the city limits, they will be grounded for a month. Sounds good to me.
I will report my results to you about once a month if you wish.
Concerned Citizen
Dick Davis
YEA!! The member who called the tourism industry to task below should be commended. The person really hit the nail on the head: Where is the tourism industry on this very important issue? Looks like they either don’t know or don’t care, both of which can, and probably will, be disastrous to their health. It doesn’t matter that many of them are in the foothills (Lowe’s, for instance). These things are so loud that they’ll certainly feel the effect. The ones closer to TIA (Holiday Inn, for instance) will discover that it’s just unbearable. Another group not accounted for so far are the apartment owners, at least to the best of my knowledge. Also, SAHBA (Southern Arizona Home Builders Association) and the Tucson realtors, who already have a huge inventory of unsold homes. Will new residents continue to move to Tucson if the noise is unbearable? I think not. It won’t take long for the word to spread. Our very short sighted city elected officials obviously can’t see this.
The point is this: All of these groups have the ability to exert much more clout than individual private citizens. I don’t know to what extent the “ol’ boy” system plays into this, but the fact that these BUSINESSES can’t see the future is very frustrating. In my opinion, all of the above business segments are good candidates for the Wall of Shame. Thank you.
Very finest regards,
Gary H. Ashberger
From Jill Davis
Can one nominate an industry?
If so, I nominate the tourism industry…the whole tourism industry; the hotels and posh resorts, the golf courses, the RV resorts, all of the ‘attractions’ that lure tourists to Tucson and any business that makes money off of visitors.
Where are they? Why haven’t they taken a stand on this? Can it be that they don’t understand how their livelihood’s will be affected?
We’ve been told that the F-35′s will bring jobs and money with them when they come to town. Well, what about the tourism money and jobs that are already here and the ‘screaming banshees’ in our skies will drive away? What about the businesses and families that wont move here because the noise is unbearable? Wouldn’t that wash out any supposed F-35 largess?
Re:Gila Bend as a Possible Location for F-35 Training
I don’t think I’d go with this line if I were y’all. It becomes “not-in-my-backyard-ism” that plays one community off another, plus the interests of Tucsonans against a more fragile ecosystem that is already very damaged by the presence of the Goldwater range. Furthermore, it’s not our job to solve for the military and US/Corporate Empire where they should practice and develop their wars against the rest of the world. Our job is to simply demand the F-35 not come here, for the myriad reasons people have, but not to suggest it should go somewhere else. I certainly would not in any way support the efforts of Tucson Forward if the direction it were to take were to resist such a cancer here, but to say it’s okay somewhere else.
JPJ
Re:Gila Bend as a Possible Location for F-35 Training
Excellent news. Support for a funding effort to upgrade Gila Ben would be a long step into the future and away from being stuck with just saying “we always did it that way”. Keep D-M as the administrative, residential, maintenance center. Use Gila Bend for unfettered, low-impact operations and training. Everybody wins.
By the way, you can use Google maps to look down on Gila Bend Field. It is actually on the Goldwater Range, so no encroachment.
And why shouldnt the folks at Luke AFB use it too?
JI
Re:Gila Bend as a Possible Location for F-35 Training
so…… how come it isn’t one of the top 4 contenders and we are?
KW
There were two Harriers that flew over the San Gabriel neighborhood (next to the Doubletree Hotel at 445 S. Alvernon and the Randolph Golf Course) this morning at about 11 AM. They made two passes below 2800 feet and were approximately a mile and a half north of DM’s published flight path. They appear to use the Doubletree Hotel as a pivot point for their turn to the west and then to fly south over the golf course. Unfortunately, this places them at low altitude over the homes just south of the hotel.
I called both numbers below, but was spoke to a person who was willing to take my information when I called, 228-3378.
Please call and let them know they are off course.
Did not we hear 2 of them yesterday morning, around 6)) am?
Thanks for the phone numbers..
I have also noticed that the military helicopters are not following the landing pattern agreed to. They were supposed to come in from the west and go direct to DM. Instead, they are coming in over the University of Arizona and going to DM in the regular landing pattern for other aircraft. I don’t know how far the fly in from, as I can only see them about the time they are over the U of A. I live just off Broadway and Campbell Avenue. It doesn’t really bother me, however, they are not flying in as agreed to —- at least, last I heard about it. If they are indeed flying over the U of A, the noise is in addition to the other aircraft in the landing pattern. Since the helicopters are coming in low, I am sure the noise level is more than it should be!
Some ungodly things have been flying over my house. I assume they are the Harriers. The noise has been scaring me, my dog, my cats. Plus, last Sunday night, the roar set off car alarms. I called the complaint line at DM and got no answer. Called back the following day and was put on hold for so long that I finally hung up.
Funny thing. The doplar effect doesn’t seem to apply to these creatures. They get louder AFTER they go past my house.
The effectiveness of the MCRC is zero when it comes to jet noise, it is the same as that hot line complaint number at the base where they take your call, say they will forward it to the chain of command and then nothing happens. It is a waste of time to do that but I do it anyway.
The article at this web site says a stop work order has been issued for the F-35 engine. Seems like this is good news.
http://beauforttribune.com/archives/56165
Thank you for taking the time to send us an E-mail. We wish it were even better news. The Stop Work Order is for an alternate engine for the F-35, not the primary engine. The F-35 will still be manunfactured.